Curse

walder · Apr 24, 2005, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taranis

Ya'll are SO wrong (well atleast the people from the first page, couldn't be arsed to read the rest

), Necro/Warriors can be deadly, I've seen atleast 2 of them in random PvP beating up Warrior/Monks, okay the 2nd one didn't but the W/M was like "Wow good figth Necro/War"...

Deadly where? Arena PvP, maybe. One on one a Nec/W can put up a fight against a W/Mo. But, in real GvG there is no such thing as one on one. I enjoyed messing around with Nec/W in the beta's, but as they have no place in real PvP, I'm not going to waste my time getting the skills just to make a subpar character.

Vermilion Okeanos · Apr 24, 2005, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Actually in GvG, it depend on the map...

example: on the frozen isle... the flag is pretty far out, cant afford to have the whole team there most of the time... so often the flag runner had to fight 1vs1 against another flag runner...

my guild's flag runner was fighting against their N/W... needless to say, our W/E wasnt exactly build to fight a N/W that was purely for 1vs1 almost. We almost lost the game because of that, later our team had to forcefully fight at the flag to decrease some DP... and of course, their team dont want us to do that, so the batte went onto the flag... except me and one of our necro, we ganked their guild lord and won =P But, the series of event were really controlled by the N/W almost... Due to his 1vs1 ability force us to change our plan.

Krileon Reborn · Apr 24, 2005, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ander Deathblade

first of all, you cannot use a rune in your secondary.
second of all, that's a very bad build. I can't see the forest through the trees.

I pretty much just slapped junk together. Ya realise you can't use runes for secondarys. Tryign to figure out why this character builder is allowing me. I never got to the point of getting to test runes out or anything. The build was just pretty much a DoT build that had AE capability. It pretty much sucks, but I'm bored out of my mind so i've got like 600 character builds lmao

Nyte · Apr 25, 2005, 03:02 AM // 03:02

This is off topic but it is for BlitzKrieg. Do you play Delta Force Land Warrior because I made a signature with a guy jsut like you name. I am Op4.Nyte

Jia Xu · Apr 25, 2005, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Let me boil this down into two simple points for everyone. Why take a necro PRIMARY over a necro SECONDARY? the only things that change are armour, primary attribute and runes (im ignoring energy pool for now ok?).

Soul Reaping - the worst primary attribute in the game for PvP. Simple.
Armour - sucky for melee, and ranger's armour is better ranged.
runes - who wants to increase their necro spells more than their other abilities? generally not that many.

Finally, i would like no posts following this saying that Soul Reaping is awesome, blahdeblah de blah. It has no effect in PvP until someone dies, in which point you hsould be significantly through the level anyways. Why would such a late-starting attribute benefit you more than energy storage, strength, divine favour, fast casting, expertise? these are all much better primary attributes for PvP. admittedly, Soul Reaping has its benefits in PvE, as there are generally a lot more monsters dying, but the battles are intermittent, and so with a little energy management aren't a problem anyways as you can sit and let your energy recharge.

Primary Necros are not worth the sacrifice of superior attributes and (if meleeing) armour and (if casting) the increased energy benefits of monks and elems.

Rhazwyth · Apr 25, 2005, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jia Xu

Finally, i would like no posts following this saying that Soul Reaping is awesome, blahdeblah de blah. It has no effect in PvP until someone dies, in which point you hsould be significantly through the level anyways.

I'm not gonna say that Soulreaping is awesome. But please explain why energy storage is better if both characters have 0 energy.

tektonik · Apr 25, 2005, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Easy if both have 0 then the E/x has casted x more spells and become that much more useful. That on top of you are not relying on people dying for your mana which can be ill fated or seal an enemy rout

Vermilion Okeanos · Apr 25, 2005, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Another thing is, no skill link to soul reaping.

Maybe if add in some ultra skill or something just for soul reaping... then people will care.

Energy storage have the more energy, and linked skills that heal both hp and energy... compare to soul reaping... soul reaping is indeed bottom of the line in PvP, fact... accept it.

Soul reaping used to be 2 energy per point... I wonder why they changed it... now it is almost useless in PvP... perhaps it was way too useful with 2 energy in PvE... maybe 1.5 energy per point then? Or maybe they can make soul reaping to increase 1 max energy each point + what we have now.

Ensign · Apr 25, 2005, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhazwyth

I'm not gonna say that Soulreaping is awesome. But please explain why energy storage is better if both characters have 0 energy.

Please explain how this is a fair comparison, as the Necromancer will hit 0 energy much more quickly than an Elementalist.

I can explain it in much fairer terms. Energy Storage gives 3 max energy per rank. Soul Reaping gives 1 energy per death per rank. Thus, even with a perfectly naive understanding of combat dynamics, we can easily conclude that the Elementalist has a better primary attribute at all points during a battle before three things have died - with a little thought, it's clear that Energy Storage is better for the deaths = 3 case as well, as the Elementalist could have spent that energy at any point of his choosing, while the Necromancer doesn't get his energy until later. So it's fair to say, without too much analysis, that at least four deaths have to occur before Soul Reaping is comparable to Energy Storage.

Then we dig a little deeper. Which is the most important kill for determining the outcome of a battle? The first one. That's when one team starts cutting to the defensive to try and get back up to strength while the other team starts to push their extra man advantage. As far as getting or preventing that first kill goes, Energy Storage contributes its full +3 energy per rank, while Soul Reaping contributes nothing. The next most important kill is clearly the second, which will generally either even the score or decide the battle - either that or someone has ressed and we're back to the previous case. For the second kill, Energy Storage has still contributed it's full +3 to the battle so far, but Soul Reaping has now contributed +1 energy per rank. This continues, and the pattern becomes apparent - Energy Storage is an attribute that is much, much more useful when the extra energy is most critical, while Soul Reaping likely doesn't start pulling its weight until after the battle has been decided.

On top of that Soul Reaping suffers from what I call the 'too little, too late' principle. Let's say that you're a defensive Necromancer/Monk who's doing his utmost to keep a focused target up. It turns into a war of attrition, your energy is depleted and you're running on regen. The enemy synchs up some damage, and your target goes down while you watch helplessly at 3 energy. Then what happens? You're handed a bunch of energy that you wish you had a second earlier - energy that could have kept that target alive. Soul Reaping consistently hands you energy not when you need it, and not even at random - it gives you energy right after you need it.

The net result of all this is that I'd want six, seven deaths to have occured before I'd even think about picking Soul Reaping over Energy Storage, and once that many deaths have occured the difference no longer matters. You need your bonuses to apply up front, to be thrown at deciding the battle when and how you wish, not a moment late during mop up.

Peace,
-CxE

Badenstein · Apr 25, 2005, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Pardon the interruption ---

I was wondering. Has anyone tried to communicate these items to the developers? How have they responded? Since there are quite a few Alphas involved with this site, and maybe a developer incognito behind the scenes, I would think this issue could be brought up quite successfully.

Tanik · Apr 25, 2005, 10:32 PM // 22:32

They know about it, they patrol the forums regularly i know Gaile has posted here many times. It would be hard not to hear about how necros utterly suck in PvP, but i look at it this way, it is balanced in a way. Look at mesmers for PvE, they really make a pretty crappy primary for PvE surely a elementalist or yes even a necro(higher defense armors) would be better than a mesmer at PvE, i think its yet another balance. The mesmer class was made for PvP, the necros made for PvE and both can sub in either.

Pinchy · Apr 26, 2005, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Wow, there is some huge necro hating on this site. I'm not even sure why, if you can actually properly build a Necro/Warrior then they work just fine. Necros can be tanks, its not that hard to not die. I had an array of skills I'd use against enemies to constantly gain health and regen while in battle. Casting, parasitic bond, vampiric touch, life siphon, and blood renewal would keep my alive for a good long time. Not only would those skills keep me alive but theyed weaken the enemies like you wouldn't balieve. Necros can be good, if you figure out how to use one.

I must agree about soul reaping, its an utter joke. I didn't even bother puting 1 point in it.

Apr 26, 2005, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinchy

Wow, there is some huge necro hating on this site. I'm not even sure why, if you can actually properly build a Necro/Warrior then they work just fine. Necros can be tanks, its not that hard to not die. I had an array of skills I'd use against enemies to constantly gain health and regen while in battle. Casting, parasitic bond, vampiric touch, life siphon, and blood renewal would keep my alive for a good long time. Not only would those skills keep me alive but theyed weaken the enemies like you wouldn't balieve. Necros can be good, if you figure out how to use one.

I dont believe that part

oNEYUS · Apr 30, 2005, 11:06 PM // 23:06

subscribing to thread

Axel-arrow · May 01, 2005, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Necro is THE WORST primary profession u can get. necro is all right if your gona have it for a secondary. in primary they have SUPER SUCKY armor an their soul reaping skill gives a shit in some assets of the game. if u like necro go for it as a SECONDARY not primary. make a Ranger/Necro or a Warrior/Necro an ull be 'A' Ok.

In other words the Necro profession is a complementary profesion.
the necro profession is like onion on a hamburger. it wont make a diference if u have it or not, ANY OTHER profession is better than a Necro, even the mesmer!

blood · May 02, 2005, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Actually, i have to say my Necromancer / Warrior was in a party of 4, and was 3-4 times the only on eleft standing at the end. And she was in the front lines, hacking away with the necro / monk, the elementalist / monk died 1st, the mesmer / elementalist hid, and i took out the last 3 by myself.

Quite frankly, it's all about how you like to play, and skill with the particular class. IMHO people who think a particular class sux, or is the worst to play just cannot play that class well, or dislike the way the class needs to be played for it to be the best, or even successful.

P.S. As i recall, the guy who started this wanted advice on which the take as secondary, not how good the necromancer is. I think he deserves a decent answer instead of flaming his character choice.

Btw, i recommend the necro / warrior, as mine is working out quite well

confessor24 · May 02, 2005, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Don't even think about making a Necromancer/Mesmer.

Why? I have a lvl 7 Necro/Mesmer (no minion build) and I am enjoying the combination immensely. Sounds to me like you're basing your analysis on wanting to do maximum damage, however there is usefulness in group settings for being able to disrupt and drain life/mana too.

May 02, 2005, 04:21 PM // 16:21

no he's basing it on whats actually going to be succesful in PvP against people that arent newbs/bad players/just starting to learn the game

Soul Monarch · May 02, 2005, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by confessor24

Why? I have a lvl 7 Necro/Mesmer (no minion build) and I am enjoying the combination immensely. Sounds to me like you're basing your analysis on wanting to do maximum damage, however there is usefulness in group settings for being able to disrupt and drain life/mana too.

Necromancer/Mesmer = Not good for PvP.

This is a fairly well known fact. The only reason to choose a primary class is the armor and primary stat. Necromancers don't have really good armor, and Soul Reaping is not useful in PvP.

Necromancer skills are very useful in PvP. You'll see plenty of Necro-subbed PvP builds, everyone likes to steal life. But what possible benefit can a N/Me have over a Me/N in PvP?

Maiyn · May 25, 2005, 12:48 AM // 00:48

I think necros can be godly.

I can't wait to make one. I'm very excited.